Preventing screen-time meltdowns

Screens are hard to avoid in today’s world, and when our children do have access, turning them off can bring on some big emotions! Have you ever wondered why they have these oversized reactions? Or how to avoid them?

My New Life host Jessica Rolph is joined by  Dr. Martha Deiros Collado, a psychologist specializing in family therapy who has her own podcast called Talking Sense, and an Instagram presence at @dr.martha.psychologist. Listen to today’s episode for simple tips to bring more harmony to the conclusion of screen time. 

Highlights:

[1:03] Does Dr. Martha use screens with her three-year-old?

[2:11] Which shows does Dr. Martha consider appropriate for her daughter? 

[3:29] A listener asks for help managing her 3 year old’s big reactions every time she turns off the screen.

[4:19] What is a parent to do about these meltdowns?

[7:41] What is actually happening in the child’s brain while they are engaged with a screen?

[11:22] Is there any evidence that the type of programming can affect children’s behavior? 

[13:55] Does sticking to a schedule or having some kind of routine around screens help with limit setting?

[16:02] Another parent shares a questions about timing exposure to screens.

[18:23] Should parents use screen time as a reward? And what about withholding screens as a punishment?

[23:55] What are some best practices around modeling moderation for our children?

[27:18] Jessica shares takeaways from her conversation with Dr. Martha.

Transcript:

Traveling with kids and screen time

Jessica: So I have to ask, do you use screens with your 3-year-old? 

Dr. Martha: Well, I think use screens is probably not the way I’d put it, but yes, she watches TV sometimes, and she watches very particular shows that we’ve kind of agreed are okay for her to watch, and it’s very kind of boundaried but also regular, so she knows when she’s going to get it, and I guess the only other time that I would use screens in that way, in terms of I’m using them for something, would be in the car. So sometimes we go on quite long trips in a car, so they might be three hours plus, and I think screens can be really helpful to kind of support kids with distraction with long travels, and similarly on a plane, we’ve gone long haul to Canada, and it’s been like a life saver. So I would use screens in that sense, and she does watch TV across the week, but it’s quite limited because she’s quite little, so she doesn’t get very long really, but I think for her, it’s enough.

Appropriate TV shows for toddlers

Jessica: And which shows do you consider appropriate for her? 

Dr. Martha: So I watch kids shows [laughter] to kind of see what they’re like, is what I enjoy. So she watches cartoons, and she will watch some films too. So she really likes Bluey and we really enjoy watching Bluey with her. And she also watches Hey Duggee, which I don’t know if it’s out there in America, but it’s a really good fun and it’s only like seven-minute episodes, which I really like, because she can watch two or three and then that’s enough. And films, she’s watched things like Moana, which is one of her favorites and Frozen. And so a couple of Disney films, and we tend to do this as like cinema nights on a weekend, we’ll get some popcorn and we all sit together as a family and we watch it, and she often doesn’t make the whole film because she’s only three and a half, so we’ll maybe watch half and then we’ll save the other part, the end part to the next weekend. And she seems to really enjoy that.

How to avoid tantrums after screen time

Jessica: That’s so helpful. Honestly, to hear from an expert and how you manage some of the modern life in your own household means a lot to our listeners. So I’m going to start by sharing a conversation with a voice memo from one of our listeners here, so let me just play this.

Caller 1: Hi there, my 3-year-old son struggles with turning off the screen and then there’s usually some kind of meltdown or tantrum, even though we’ve agreed upon, “Okay, you’re going to watch this one thing and then we’ll turn it off,” there’s always some kind of meltdown. What tips or tricks do you have to kind of get over that, because that’s the reason why we’re struggling with screen time, it’s not really the programming, because he’s three and a half now, so we do selective programming for him, but regardless of the program, he always has this reaction to it. So if you have any tips for that, that would be great. Thank you.

Jessica: So what do you think, Martha? 

Dr. Martha: Yeah, I think this is such a common problem. And it’s very normal. So I guess the first thing I want to say is there’s nothing wrong with your child, this is actually a very standard response to switching off the screen. Children really struggle with transitions, particularly at this age, so in the early years, up to the age of around six, they really struggle with quick transitions and particularly watching screens, so their brain goes into kind of a dream-like state when they’re watching the screen, it’s passively receiving information, so it’s kind of switched off, but also switched on and off that they’re watching. And this can mean that when you then just take the screen off or you say to a child, “I’m switching it off,” they’ll have a big emotional outburst because what they’re missing is a little bit of a transition to support their brain to come back into the real world. So to bring their brain back into the here and now, rather than what happens in their brain, which is they just go into the fantasy of what they are watching, and because at this age, their brain really struggles to kind of differentiate fantasy from reality, this makes it even harder for them.

So a transition, a healthy transition doesn’t have to take very long, it’s about the five minutes before you’re going to switch something off, rather than reminding your child that you’re going to switch it off, join them. So if you haven’t been in the room with them, come in, sit down. I would bring your child a drink or maybe a little snack, something that brings their body back to the here and now, so bring them a drink, you go, “Hey, are you thirsty? I brought you a drink.” Or whatever it is, sit with them, ask a couple of questions about what they’re watching, because talking to you is going to support them in realizing that they’re here now on the sofa, sat with you, rather than in their brain, right there in the fantasy world of what they’re watching, and then it’s about setting the boundary, so hopefully there is like a nice end point to the screen time, so it’s the end of a show or…

Something that is quite clear cut, it’s an ending, because that’s also going to help your child with the transition. If not, this will still work. It’s okay to say to your child, “You know, it’s time. We agreed you would watch… “ Whatever it is. Half an hour. “Your half an hour is over for today, so I’m going to switch off the TV.” The really important thing is that you do this with confidence… Okay? This is not a negotiation. This is a boundary. So it is about being firm and you can still be empathic with how your child responds. So make sure that you have the remote, make sure you switch it off when you’re going to do it, and you allow your child to express a protest if it comes. If you follow these little tips, what you might find is that your child just goes, “Okay.” Because they’ve already switched back and they’re okay. Or they might grunt or be disgruntled. A bit like, “Oooh. I want more.” But they might not bust into a big meltdown because their brain has settled back into the here and now.

Effects of screen time on children’s brain

Jessica: I think that’s so interesting. I’ve never heard that before. Sit down with your child the last few minutes of their program. It makes sense. And bring them a little… Like some ice water or a drink to help their body awaken. What about dopamine? Can you explain what is actually happening in their brain. Because I have heard, or at least intuitively, it feels that oftentimes, what’s on the screen is so distant from our reality. There are so many interesting colors and frames and things happening. Is that doing something to our brain? 

Dr. Martha: I mean, for little ones, you would have to watch a huge amount of TV for it to do something like harmful to the brain. I think what it does is… As a parent, you need to be aware of this… Is that your child is passively watching something. TV does not teach children things no matter how educational a program is. There is so much research on this. And I know the information can be really confusing. However, children don’t learn words necessarily from TV. If your child has good verbal language, they might get more out of watching a screen than if your child does not. So if your child is still in the developing language phase, which for me is early years, that whole time, then you’ve got to be really mindful that the TV is not teaching them things. The TV has to be like light relief. A bit like it is for you. It’s just fun. It is not an intellectual or educational thing. And I know there’s loads of educational programs, but you need to think of those as things that you have to do with your child in order for them to actually gain the learning from it, because we don’t learn passively. Our brains don’t learn just by watching. Our brains learn from doing.

So if they’re just watching TV on their own, you need to see this as fun. Light entertainment. So the dopamine kind of idea is more about the fact that it feels good to watch TV, and that’s fun. It’s kind of like entertainment. Like it is for us. Lots of adults after work, the first thing they do is put the TV on. And then they’re like, “And now I relax.” The reality is that our brains are not relaxing when we’re watching TV. And I know that might feel really at odds with our experience, but we’re not relaxing because our brains are still taking in this information, but in a really passive way. And it doesn’t allow our brains to switch off, which is what allows us to relax our bodies. So it’s kind of like screens… I don’t like to demonize screens because I think… I’m somebody who loves TV and I absolutely adore films. So I don’t want to put a bad rep on TV, but I think it’s about just being really aware of what we are offering our children and just knowing that it’s not for learning. It’s just for fun.

Jessica: On the programming, is there any evidence that the type of programming can affect children’s behavior afterwards? Like do more dynamic shows get them more agitated and frustrated when you’re, have to… When it’s time to turn it off? 

Dr. Martha: So I find this really interesting because there really is no like good enough evidence to demonstrate that. So the important factor to take in here is children who are really into more action packed, like things on TV probably tend to be more physical and action type kids than others, right? So our preferences and what we watch are often linked to our temperament and the things that we prefer to. So that’s the main link to take from it rather than watching an action film will make your child more aggressive. We don’t have enough evidence to say that that is the case. What we do know is that if children spend lots of hours, so not like one or even two but hours and hours and hours and hours, just watching a screen, of course, what they’re not doing is moving their body.

What they’re not doing is releasing energy. What they’re not doing is exploring things with their bodies. And therefore when you switch off the screen, if what they’ve been doing is mainly iPad and/or mainly TV, what happens is their energy has to go somewhere. Okay? Because the energy hasn’t moved, it’s just been sat watching something. So that’s why sometimes what you witness is more exploitive things. The other thing to know of course is that obviously children play out the things that they watch or see both in the real world and in their fantasy world, in their minds, but of course TVs and screens are part of that too. So they might play out some of the things that they’ve seen. It doesn’t necessarily make them more aggressive, but it might mean that what they do is process some of the things they watched on TV.

So I don’t know what could, you know… If you watch Marvel or something and there’s action figures everywhere, you might witness your child trying to do some of the stunts or some of the things the action figure has done. And some of that is then processing what they’ve watched on a screen and try to make sense of what does it feel like to be a superhero, it’s role play basically. So that’s how I would think about it, especially with really young ones.

Setting limits with screen time

Jessica: Yes. I’ve definitely seen that with my daughter reenacting Frozen, it’s really interesting to see how the screen can translate into play. Talk to us about limitations. Can you help me understand if sticking to a schedule or having some kind of routine around screens helps with that limit setting? 

Dr. Martha: I think routines always help with limit setting, but the schedule that you put in is up to you and your family. And there is a difference between a schedule and a routine. So a schedule is something that is very kind of time concrete, right? So you might say at 3 o’clock every day you get half an hour of TV. A routine might be every day, you get TV after school. What time that is might vary depending on whether they have an extracurricular activity, whether they’re tired, whether they actually want to play or run around in the park with their friends first. Right? So a routine is a lot more flexible, but what routines allow is for predictability. And when children know that there’s a predictable time when they’re going to get access to a screen or the TV, it can help them both shrink the big protests when it’s over, because they know they’re going to get more.

They know it’s not the end and it can also really help them kind of make a decision about whether they want it or not, because believe it or not, when you have a routine and your child has some predictability that there is TV available, it’s not a restriction, it’s a boundary. It really can help kids to say, “Actually, you know what, I don’t want to watch TV today because I want to stay in the park. So that’s okay. I’ll drop my TV time today. I’m alright with that,” because they know it’ll come back tomorrow. They don’t miss it. And I know that might sound really weird if you’re a parent whose child is just really into watching TV, but I’ve got 3 1/2-year-old who has a routine around the TV. And that is definitely the case for her. She will sometimes just forfeit it because she’s got something better to do. And she’s like, “It’s okay, I’ll watch it tomorrow.” And that’s the kind of attitude we want to kind of support our children to get, so it doesn’t feel like it’s an addiction or something you have to have. It’s just something nice that you can have sometimes. And it’s okay sometimes not to have it too.

When should you schedule screen time?

Jessica: This really relates to a question from a parent about timing. Let me play it for you.

Caller 2: If I decide to give screen time to my 2-year-old, is it better to do it after he comes from school or before he goes to bed? 

Dr. Martha: I mean, great question. I find it really hard to say what you need to do because I don’t know you and your family, and I don’t know your child either. And the thing is, there is no right or wrong. We know that there is some evidence about screens impacting on the sleep in children, but it’s not all children, so that makes it trickier, really. The evidence isn’t that clear-cut around screens, so it makes it a little bit trickier. So we know that the blue light can affect children and mean that they struggle to fall asleep at that time. But it’s not all children, so some children are more sensitive than others. Only you know what works for your kid. I would also say, similarly, after school, for some kids, watching TV is great, but what most kids need after school is some connecting and relaxing time. And connecting time means some play with you or even just joining you to make dinner or putting the table or whatever it is.

Some moments to interact, talk about their day, just regulate their bodies really is what I’m trying to say. Movement, regulation through talking, all that really good stuff. And TV won’t give them any of that. TV will just give them a pause, but hopefully, also it may give you a pause from having to entertain your child or talk to them in the busyness of the evening so you can prepare dinner or do all the tasks that you need to do. So what I would say is, whether you do it after school or before bedtime, if your child isn’t that sensitive to the light and you think they’ll fall asleep anyway, make sure that you do boundary it and you do set a time of, “This is how long you’re going to do it for.” Obviously before bedtime. That’s paramount. But also after school so that they still have some of the good feelings of connection and being able to move around and do something else. Because most kids, when they come back from school, they’re exhausted. And like I said before, TV is not the best way to relax their brains, so make sure that you implement some other strategies to help them with that.

Screen time as a reward

Jessica: And what about using screens as a reward, or what about reward penalty systems in general, do they work? 

Dr. Martha: Well, they don’t work long term. So if we… That question, I always find really interesting. Do rewards work? My gut instinct is to say, “Yes, of course they work,” but only for a short period, okay? When you reward a child with anything, they will work to get that thing, but that doesn’t mean that they’re learning anything from it because all they’re doing is trying to change their behavior, to get that result, which is their reward. After a while, rewards stop working. They’re no longer interested because they’re not actually learning to do something. And similarly, with punishments. If what you do is take away your child’s screen, you’re not teaching them the behavior you want to see. You’re teaching them to do whatever it takes to get access to a screen. And those two things are very, very different.

So I’m not somebody who promotes rewards or punishments, particularly not punishments because they don’t work. They really don’t teach your child anything other than you’ve got the power to take things away from them that they like, so it becomes about you and them, not the thing, not their behavior, and definitely not learning anything positive or appropriate. So think about not using screens as special things. I think because of the society we live in, the fact that we’ve got phones, laptops, all these… There are screens everywhere all the time. I think the best thing we can do as parents is normalize for our children the experience of living with a screen, setting boundaries with it, learning that there are things that can be useful, they can be fun, they can be entertaining, but they’re not things that we should be aiming to spend our time with, all the time.

Jessica: I think it’s so interesting. I can’t help but reflect on my own parenting. So I have children who are a little bit older than the listeners’ children. So my youngest is 7, my oldest has just turned 12, and I have a 9-year-old in the middle. And my 9-year-old last night was just like, “Why don’t you let us have video games?” And I have been very restrictive about screens and frankly, for a while, it was also about food, sugar, foods that we consider, “Bad.” And there’s this new perspective that I’ve been gaining from talking to experts like you and also intuitive eating experts that we almost create this desire for the restricted item, whether it’s food or whether it’s screens.

Dr. Martha: Yeah, absolutely.

How to reduce your own screen time

Jessica: And my son articulates it. So he articulated in bed, so [chuckle] so in a such a sophisticated way. He was just like, “Mom, you are going to make me want to do video games so much when I can finally have access that I won’t be able to control myself.” And it was so interesting. So we have… It’s interesting to really reflect on these other approaches and I find your perspective, especially for this community, to be really valuable. It’s about moderation. Talk to me about moderation for adults. You talk a lot about the modeling. Here’s the tough one. I’m running a business and my husband and I, it just seems like everything happens over text, like coordinating play dates and got three kids and constantly getting bombarded with things. And modeling healthy screen use by limiting our own screen time does seem like an aspiration, something that we and our family haven’t done a great job with. Can you give us some tips? What do you think about how we as adults can do better? 

Dr. Martha: Yeah, I think we can all do better and I will throw myself into that tank because I think it is a really tough one. But modeling is really powerful, and I really align with all the things you’ve said before about it is about teaching children how to live with screens rather than not. We want to teach children balance, we want to teach children coping skills, so we need to show them the how. And modeling is a really powerful way of doing that and it is hard, and I think lots of us adults struggle with it, just because…

Well, first of all, I think with our phones, there is an addiction to it. In adults definitely. Things like social media, they’re primed to be addictive. They’re actually set up that way. It’s very clever, but our smartphones, they are created in a way that means that we want to hold them and we want to use them. So a couple of top tips that I use, and I’m not saying I’m perfect at this, because I definitely am not. And also a lot of my work is online. So it’s tricky, but it’s about, one, setting boundaries, the same way we do with our kids, and this is going to be different for every household. So have a think. At what point in the day can you just put your phone away, and by putting it away I mean switch it completely off and put it somewhere like… I put mine on a book case, put it high up somewhere where you’re not going to be walking past it going, “Did somebody message me?”

You want to switch it off. So for me, I will tell you what I do, but it might not fit for you. It’s in the mornings. Okay, and our phones are also not in our bedrooms at night, so there’s no temptation to get on the phone. As I’m getting to bed, I might grab a book or I might have a conversation with my husband or something else, but I’m definitely not going to play with my phone. Okay? So that works for us, kind of not in the bedrooms, so it’s in the morning first thing, and it’s not at night either. And then it’s not at the table. So for me, meal times should be quality family time. And if you’re going to get distracted by the buzz of your phone or even if you’ve got a smart watch, it’ll buzz at you. It is so annoying and also it is so anti-social. If you go to a meal with friends or something, it’s rude to play on your phone in front of a friend that you’ve gone out for a meal, and often, we will apologize, “Oh, sorry, I got a message. I just want to read X, Y, and Z.” But if you’re with your family at home, we don’t tend to apologize, we tend to just do it without really thinking about the impact this has on the people that we love the most, that we are sitting with.

So we don’t have phones at the table, and my child does obviously not have a phone because she’s so tiny. But in the future, that’ll be another challenge about when and how and what we do with that, but for her to learn… My parents don’t hang out with phones at the table. I think is a really powerful message. So the phone, it’s just not there. We put it higher up on a shelf, switched off and we don’t touch it usually until our daughter is in bed. So between dinner and then the full bedtime routine, there are no screens, and that is our family choice. It might not work for you, but it’s something for you to think about. Like where can you switch it off? My second tip with screens is when you have your phone switched on and you’re using it, actually switch off notifications because they are the most addictive bit for us.

Okay, that little red blob that says, “Ooh, somebody said something, or commented or followed you,” or whatever it is, switch them off. If you don’t know how to do that, there are ways to look it up on the internet. Switch off your notifications. You will suddenly hear radio silence, and it’s really nice [chuckle] to then just be aware that you are consciously going on your phone. And my last tip is schedule things. Obviously, you can’t schedule things like text or calls or work that you might do on your phone or on your laptop. But particularly with your phone, schedule looking at social media the same way you schedule a call. Put it in your diary, make it like a conscious time, “I’m going to get on and I’m going to do X, Y, and Z.”

So I do that because I use social media for my work. I actually schedule time in my day and in my week when I’m going to do something actively, which might include scrolling and looking at other people’s feeds and reading comments or whatever it is. But do that as a conscious activity, and that will also help you notice how much time you spend on your phone, because some of it is passive and we don’t realize it. We just grab it and scroll and look, and all of that is time that we could be doing something else in the real world. Remember, our brains are like in a dream-like state when we’re on a screen. It’s the same with our phone, and when we’re doing that, we’re not actually living in the present moment, and we’re missing out on little things. But all those little things always build up, I think, to a bigger picture of us co-existing with each other.

Jessica: Oh, this is so helpful. Dr. Martha, thank you for this time that you’ve spent and sharing your wisdom with us.

It’s been wonderful having you.

Dr. Martha: Thank you so much for having me.

This is challenging territory for so many families. My favorite takeaway from today’s interview with Dr. Martha is this first one:

1. As we know, children struggle with making transitions. Their brain is in a dreamlike state while watching a screen — it’s passively receiving information. That big emotional outburst when you switch it off, is a function of an abrupt transition between the dreamlike fantasy realm and reality. Help them to make that transition: Rather than simply telling your child that you’re switching off the screen in 5 minutes, join them with a drink or snack. Sit with them, and ask them a couple of questions about what they’re watching. This will help them bring their body back to the here and now. 
2. Stick to your family’s limits. When you’ve arrived at an endpoint, preferably the end of the show, say confidently: “It’s time. Your half hour is over for today”. This is not a negotiation; this is a boundary. Stay firm, but remain empathetic. Allow them to express protest. 
3. TV does not teach children things no matter how educational a program is. Particularly if your child is still developing language, consider it light entertainment, not an educational experience. Learning involves actively engaging with another person.
4. Noticing more explosive behavior in your toddler after watching a particular type of show? Regardless of the programming, when your child has been sitting for a while in front of a screen, they need to release all that pent-up energy. Dr. Martha also points out that more physical, action-oriented children are drawn to shows packed with action, and they often want to play out some of the things they’ve seen on the screen. This helps them process what they’ve watched and make sense of what it’s like to be a superhero themselves.
5. A routine around screens can help reduce the emotions after screen time, because your child is reassured that they’ll have access to that show again at the next scheduled session. 
6. Rewards only work for a short period. Your child will do what they need to get that reward, but they are not learning to modify their behavior. Likewise, if you take your child’s screen away as a punishment, your actions demonstrate that you’ve got the power to take away what they like, and it becomes about you and them, not their behavior. 

You can find more tips on managing screen time on our Lovevery blog.